Kaiser Forum

Due to popular demand we will hold a Community vote to see if there is any need to rearrange the nightly Tournaments. The votes must show some interest in changing the tournament types otherwise they will remain as is. Please feel free to add comments and ask questions. I also encourage you to talk to your fellow players and invite them to come place a vote.

NOTE: You must be logged in to the Forum to vote or see the results. The Forum and the game community user names are not linked so if you have not registered here on the forum you will need to do so to log in.

Justoleme, your team is often in it to the end.  There are some very good, intelligent players on this site.  Keep practising.  Makes the games and the bidding a great challenge! 

lol,, ok,, will do soul

Is "elimination" the current 8 or 10 format?

I find 8 o'clock rules frustrating, especially getting penalized for taking the 3, and not scoring as a team?

What about switching the order of the two tournies and seeing if time slot is a factor?

I won't play tournies at all if they are like the 8 pm version.

This link might be helpful...

http://www.kaisergame.com/Home/Kaiser/Tournaments.html (http://www.kaisergame.com/Home/Kaiser/Tournaments.html)

 my thought is both like the 10 o'clock,,your right cat,, the 8 o'clock is frustrating,, that's why i never play it

The question should have been who wants the 8pm points tourny replaced with an elimination tourny. Now the votes are being split between who wants 2 elimination tournies and who wants 3 elim. tournies. I hope it is being noted that 9 people want the 8 points tourny gone while only 5 want it to stay as of June 22!

COPIED FROM DIFFERENT THREAD:
I voted to leave the times and type of tournaments the same.

But I would like to see some changes made to the points tournament.  I do not agree the way the points are weighted.  The problem is that the hands are not given enough points compared to each trick.  The hand is worth one point for winning, one point for setting (X2) and -1 for losing.  Each trick is given one point so the daring bidder is rewarded with several points on tricks but only loses one point for getting set.  How about giving four points +/- for winning or losing a bid and two points (given to each setter) on a set?  The way it is now a single game with 10 hands issues 80 total points for tricks but only about 20 points +/- for the hands.  The current way of doing it rewards the aggressive bidders so I confess this is partially a selfish desire on my part since I prefer a more defensive style of play.  Testament to this is that I have never won an early tournament.

Despite the fact I would win more overall points with two elimination tournaments the way it is now, I still like the points tourney due to the greater number of partners I play with so I can meet more people - good for new players too.

Quote from: cat on June 22, 2015, 03:55:33 PM
The question should have been who wants the 8pm points tourny replaced with an elimination tourny. Now the votes are being split between who wants 2 elimination tournies and who wants 3 elim. tournies. I hope it is being noted that 9 people want the 8 points tourny gone while only 5 want it to stay as of June 22!

I agree that the votes for 2 Eliminations or 3 Eliminations will count together and the more popular choice will then be the chosen arrangement.
Im guessing if there are 3 tournaments a night then the regular games will be empty most of the night.

Why not keep the current tournaments and add an elimination tourney at 6PM?  The points tourney should be kept in some form.  It has the positive effect of giving less experienced, or just plain less talented players, the opportunity to learn from playing with better players.  Also I expect the more experienced players will be the main participants in this vote so it is a no brainer for them to vote in favour of elimination tourneys only so they can hog the points.

Okay here's my 2 cents.  I love kaiser but i'm really annoyed at the 8 oclock tourny.  People are so greedy, there is no 'team' work because of points.  I've bid and had my own partner screw me.  People are so scared of the 3 its ridiculous, Its not going to bite you.  I like the randomness of players but I hate the greedy no team work players.  Thats it, thats just my opinion.  :D

I don't care about points.  Give me a tourney format that simulates real kaiser.  Trying to win the game as a team rather than avoid the 3.  Sometimes taking the 3 is necessary to get the 5.

What about an elimination format that paired people randomly til they got eliminated?

Hwheels and Catman make one of the best, valid points ever in this forum and it is in regards to the 3. 

First and foremost, the tourney format breeds greed.  :-\ If you want to win, or have any kind of competitive bone in your body, of course you are going to want to try and win at all costs.   It's kind of like Survivor.... doesn't matter how nice you are in real life.  When it comes to a game, and if you want to win it, you will do what it takes.

For those who just want to be friendly and have fun.... play unrated games and chill with your homies instead being disappointed with the greed of other players, cause that will never stop.

But the most important point of all, has to do with the playing of, or the avoiding of the 3. >:(

If people want to improve and compete against some of the better players on the site, they really need to comprehend the value of being able to take the three if warranted.  You will only ever be a mediocre player at best if you are avoiding the 3 at all cost, and unfortunately, the 8 o'clock points tournament enables that behaviour even further.

IMHO the 8 pm points tournament is pointless.  Pun intended. I never play for the reasons listed above.  And further to that, no one visits in there.  I only ever see or hear people complaining or being negative about something or someone.  IN fact... the very first time I came back to Kaiser last year I was attacked and ridiculed about my name.  So I don't really see how there would be value in keeping that 8 pm points tournament, unless of course you need an outlet for drama.   ;)

Having said that, I do like some of the suggestions....

But would much prefer to see 2 elims.

3 Elim tournies is overkill and we would see less players in them all.

The Sunday tournament at 8 pm seems to be the most popular of all of the 8's.  Perhaps Sunday is the day there could be 3 tournaments.  An early morning Elimination Tournament.  Keep the 8 double points tournament, and have the other elim at its regular time of 10pm.

Just a thought.    8)

First off its great to start seeing people take part in voicing their concerns and opinions on the Forum. We now have a topic of great interest.

If points matter to a Kaiser member then there is no big secret that playing in Tournaments is the best way to increase them.
The elimination tournament is the more popular however the points tournament closely resembles the live tournaments you play in person, with the exception of random partners. Random partners is the reason i went with this style of pointing. The tournament winner is not a team but rather a person, so the points were awarded individually. Unfortunately the outcome was a selfishness to win without your partners.

I am currently weeding through the tournament code to find out why people get disconnected. Its easier than it sounds but difficult to implement because we are not in the testing stages any more. Any changes i make to the code will affect the Tournaments and i dont want to make them worse.
I wrote this code 10 years ago so I'm not as familiar with it as i was back then.  :-\

The easiest solution for me would be 2 eliminations and change the times to 7 and 9 so that the people dont have to stay up so late.

7 and 9?!?!?!?!

YES YES YES ;D

7 and 9 would be great for me, too.

By the way, thanks for taking consideration to the feedback and explaining your point of view.

I would like to see a 6 and 8 pm points and the 10 elimination.

really not enough options o the vote.  I believe there needs to be changes made not necessarily more or less tournaments/different times.

If 3 elimination tournaments wins the vote then not much option for times other than 6 8 10.
If 2 Elimination tournaments wins then we can discuss the times again.

I know having 3 tournaments a night sounds better, but it will diminish the players available in the regular community  every night. Maybe 3 Tournaments a night just on Friday or weekends or just Sundays... etc.

i personally like the 2 elimination at 7 and 9

I added 1 more choice and you CAN change your votes.

I like the 8 0 clock because i think it gives newer players a chance to play with the the ones that have been around for a long time. In regular games they don,t . They don,t in the 10 o clock either.  Can,t cheat in the 8 o clock.  I like both . 7 and 9 o clock is a great idea. Very late for the Manetoba  people. My opinion. :)

so what is the status of the 8 points tourny? is it going to change to an elimination tourny?

At the moment i have not focused much on what will be done as far as the results show. I have been more concerned with finding out why there are disconnects in the 8 PM tournament.

more than 1/3 want to keep it as is, so that makes the decision harder.
There will be a change in the time to 7 and 9 eventually. Im surprised at how many want 3 tournaments nightly.
If everyone is in playing Tournaments then the community is mostly empty in the evenings.

If the 8oclock tourny was eliminated then it would be easier for you then you wouldnt have to spend time finding out why there are disconnects lol

That is true and i had thought of that also. Some have reported the disconnect in the 10PM as well but mostly the 8PM.

I will be issuing an update soon that will make changes to a few areas of the program so id rather do them all at once in 1 update. They will contain Tournament changes and hopefully some fixes.

I like it the way it is....maybe add an afternoon tournament as well.

i like catman's suggestion for random partner elimination for one of the tourney's. i'm not sure how points works but taking over partners bid just to out point them sounds to greedy both partners should get equal points for all bids.....period... and the 3 is my friend lol.

I have the best suggestion... what about an Elimination Tourn where every player plays with a bot?  ;D

i love it Kevin,, great idea!! something different

KEEP THEM THE WAY THEY ARE. BUT AT 7 AND 9. GOOD LUCK WITH MAKING EVERYBODY HAPPY. ;D

Another thought to mull over is a Points Tournament still, but each person plays with a Computer Partner. The point system would change to team pointing instead of individual. If your partner made their bid then you would earn those points. We all know how good those computer players are right ....
I'm pretty sure that would eliminate any way of cheating. I think games might complete faster also. I dont want to totally scrap the points tournament just yet because looking at the voting there is still interest in it. Isn't this how many of you play tournaments in person? You bring your own partner but play for points. The problem with these online tournaments is the cheating factor. There is no way for this program to control it other than Bot Partners. Bots dont cheat therefor a human can't.

I still have to find the disconnection problem first, but thats underway.
Im pretty sure the times will change to 7 and 9 simply because it affords everyone in Canada the opportunity to play both.

K

I haven't had any issues with cheating in the points tournament.  The issue is individual scoring.  In live tournaments we DO NOT take our on partner, partners are random each game.  The only points that are kept are the points that you and your partner make in a game.  There is no need to keep track of who takes the 5 or the 3, how many tricks you've taken or even who wins the game.  It's all about you and your partners points at the end of an 8 or 10 hand game. The game isn't over at 52, it's over at a predetermined 8 or 10 hands. 

The Tournaments will change to 7 and 9 pm soon.   ;D